93: Rapping into Courageous Conversations & Respect with Janet Taras

• 3 Steps to Utilizing Rap:
  1. Venting about a situation with a person.
  2. Clarity of where that anger/frustration comes from.
  3. Putting it to words. Will the person you are referring to hear it in a way that is effective?
   
   
  Janet’s BIO:
  Janet Taras is an award-winning speaker and a Motivational Rapper helping people in the workforce to have difficult conversations. Her keynote speeches and training programs have unleashed 1000s of essential conversations, resulting in better team collaboration and increasing productivity.
   
  • Janet is known as one of the most provocative speakers on Leadership Conversations.
  • Over the last 6 years, not only has Janet spoken in over 25 cities, she has influenced 1000s of lives through her message and inspirational style.
  • In addition to her speaking career, she developed over 500 products for the beauty industry.
  • An entrepreneur who founded 2 businesses.
  • A women’s rights advocate.
  • Former a board member at domestic abuse refuge centre in Canada
  • She has lived in 6 different countries and is slightly dog obsessed
   
   
  Links to Janet:
  • Website: www.speakingrights.com
  • Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jtcouragespeaker/
  • Instagram: @janettaras
  • Twitter: @janettaras
  • Facebook: Speakingrights

YOUR HOST: Mike Domitrz is the founder of The Center for Respect where he helps educational institutions, the US Military and businesses of all sizes create a culture of respect throughout their organizations. From addressing consent to helping corporations build a workplace free from fear (reducing sexual harassment and helping employees thrive by treating them with respect every day), Domitrz engages audiences by sharing skill sets they can implement into their lives immediately. As an author, trainer, keynote speaker and coach, Mike Domitrz loves working with leaders at all levels. Learn more at http://www.CenterForRespect.com

Mike Domitrz:
Welcome to The Respect Podcast. I’m your host Mike Domitrz from mikespeaks.com, where we help organizations of all sizes, educational institutions and the US military create a culture of respect and respect is exactly what we discuss on this show. So, let’s get started.

Mike Domitrz:
This week’s guest is a speaker and trainer on the topic of courageous conversations. She’s also a motivational wrapper using the game of rap to help people in the workplace build confidence and release frustration that enables them to have more tough talks. Our guest today is Janet Taras. Is that correct pronunciation Janet?

Janet Taras:
Yes, Taras is fine.

Mike Domitrz:
Taras. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us. We’re going to dive right into this because you do some unique approach and you use rapping. So can you talk about how you use rapping to help people have difficult conversations, courageous conversations?

Janet Taras:
Well, thanks for that. I think that’s one of the best ways to build confidence is through music. I always felt that and I think that music does tend to allow us to lose a bit more of our inhibitions. But why I started doing it is because I was teaching this course called Courageous Conversation and it’s all about having difficult conversations. And I realized the more that I was doing it and the more people I was training and the more tips I was giving, it wasn’t actually making much of a difference when it came down to the crunch and they actually had to have the conversation. And what was missing was almost like this catalyst, something that they could have a tool, something that could actually inspire them to go ahead and have that conversation. And that’s what I was looking for.

Janet Taras:
And as I was looking for it, I was in a situation where I needed to have that confidence as well. And my daughter was studying her music and she started to look at the area of rap. And the more I listened to my daughter, the more I realized that is ultimately the best, fake it till you make it strategy that I could ever think of. I mean, have you ever heard an insecure rapper? Right.

Mike Domitrz:
Right, correct.

Janet Taras:
And so whether these people, these rappers are actually sick feeling confident or not, they really do sound it. So I started to test this out and I started to see if it would work. And all of the clients that I was actually giving talks to, I would say, “Okay, well it’s now time to build a bit of that will that desire to have the conversation. Let’s give this a go.” And it started to work. And the more people that tried it, the more people liked it and the more people actually gained their confidence to have the conversation. Obviously, I would never say everybody. It’s not something that everybody’s going to love. If you hate rap music, then you will not try it. But for most people, they’ll give anything a go if it means they’re actually going to have more confidence to have those really difficult conversations.

Mike Domitrz:
And so how do you do it? What’s the form, or the strategy?

Janet Taras:
Well, this is the secret, it is based on psychology and a little bit of neuroscience. But it’s very simple, also. And I’ve developed this along with some rappers, some actually quite well known UK rappers, all women, oddly. A lot of the people that I speak to have very widespread women’s networks. And what was happening is I reached out to women in particular because, and I think you’ll like this being the center of respect, I found that rap music as awesome as it is also has a very bad reputation with regard to misogyny. And so I wanted to speak to a lot of the most influential women rappers that I could think of to say, “How are you handling this? And how exactly are you going to overcome it? And how are you competing in this very male dominated world?” And so I started working with them and together we came up with this strategy that helps them to write their raps and to have confidence.

Janet Taras:
It goes into three steps. So the first step is all about venting. And I think particularly here in the UK, that’s where I am, people tend to hold back when it comes to their frustrations, when it comes to any type of emotion, really. They’re not as as expressive as in the States or Canada, which is where I’m from. And so this being allowed to vent was something that a lot of people really welcomed here. And so we gave them the templates for certain wraps that they had to simply fill out the blanks. And that is how they start to vent their frustrations on a particular topic.

Janet Taras:
We then move to the second step, which is about clarity and clarifying where this anger and frustration comes from. The philosophy being that once you understand the anger, or that’s not true. Once you release the anger, you could then look at it and have a perspective, if that makes sense to you and say, “Okay, well is there any logic to that emotion?” And then clarifying it for the person themselves. And then the third step is to then put it into words that they think the person they’re going to have the conversation we’ll be able to understand. So it’s really looking at their adversary or the person that they’re speaking to and understanding their perspective. So once you go through those three steps, you feel you’re a lot less angry, you’re more clear and you have an understanding of who you’re about to speak to before you have the conversation.

Mike Domitrz:
So it is, I don’t want to say the word aimed because that sounds more confrontational, but it is purposed at the person causing frustration. So this is done for when you’re in a relationship that has conflict in it specifically. So the venting is about a person and or the person’s actions, is that correct?

Janet Taras:
Yeah, it’s whatever. So I was going to be training you or it’s usually a group of people. Let’s say we choose the topic of people speaking over you in meetings. Everyone hates being spoken over in meetings. They feel disrespected, they feel marginalized. And so allowing them to express how it is that they’re feeling. So it’s about the individual person and how they are feeling.

Mike Domitrz:
All right. That makes total sense. So is there any chance you could give us as an example?

Janet Taras:
Would you like me to rap for you? Is that what you’re saying Mike?

Mike Domitrz:
Yes, yeah. I mean an example of how this, then people get to hear it. They just say, “Oh, okay. Got it.”

Janet Taras:
I see. Okay, I suppose I could give you a bit of a template. But you know what, I could give you my rap that I wrote for International Women’s Day.

Mike Domitrz:
Perfect.

Janet Taras:
And actually it does go through these steps a little. It’s not as processed because I wanted to make an a nice song. So when they do it in a group, it’s more, “Okay, this is how I feel.” And it’ll be more rhymey. So.

Janet Taras:
this is going to encompass everything, just not in the right order, if that makes sense.

Mike Domitrz:
Yep, makes sense.

Janet Taras:
Okay. So we go, ladies and gentlemen, we’re here to say that balance is better for the world today. We want to talk action and equal pay. We want both genders here to stay. We will not breed new hate, hate, hate. We will not emasculate, late, late. The scales must hold equal weight. Our kids must have equal fates. No to misogyny, it’s not all right. We will not smile or be polite. No more predators, no more fight, no more hurt, just stop that fight. And then I go into another section where I talk about at the time that I was fired when I told my company that I was pregnant.

Mike Domitrz:
So I’m going to pause and go back to some of the lyrics there because you said, “We don’t want to emasculate.” And so who is that talking to? Who’s that for?

Janet Taras:
So that is for both men and women. But I suppose when I say, “We will not breed new hate”, because what I don’t want to do, the whole theme of international women’s day was about balance and actually bringing men and women into the conversation. So I didn’t want to focus on anything that was going to breed any anger towards either gender. So we will not breed new hate and then, “We will not emasculate.” We don’t want to make any man effeminate. We’re not looking for them to become a woman. We’re respecting who they are. “The scales must hold equal weight. Our kids must have equal fates.” It’s not about becoming a woman leader leading like a man or a man leader at leading like a woman. I think we just need to actually have the right balance in order to have the right equality.

Mike Domitrz:
All right, so let’s pause there. So if somebody was using this in the workplace, you had said this is a way to help them have courageous conversations. So is somebody writing the rap and then rapping it to the person, the coworker?

Janet Taras:
No. Oh no, no, no. Sorry.

Mike Domitrz:
I can see that being very people going, “What is going on here?”

Janet Taras:
That is bold, Mike. I think even the most bold of people would never do that. Even rappers wouldn’t do that. But no, it’s definitely not for that. It is for you. If you could just imagine yourself having that really uncomfortable conversation. Let’s imagine you have to fire someone because you found out they were stealing and you really like this person and you don’t want to have this conversation because you know that they have a family at home and they’re going to be embarrassed, et cetera. You’re dreading it. This is to pump you up. This is to make sure that you have that conversation because if you don’t, the person’s going to continue to do whatever bad thing they were doing, stealing or simply just not do their job and you’ll just sit back and be marginalized because they’re not doing the job that you hired them to do. So it’s making sure that it’s building up a bit of confidence and a bit of will in order to do that and making sense of why you need to do this.

Mike Domitrz:
And you use the term courageous conversations in your work and that’s what you teach. So are you part of the bestselling, are you trained under Glenn Singleton’s book series, the whole Courageous Conversations?

Janet Taras:
No, not at all. Not at all. I ultimately came up with everything that I do based on 25 years in the beauty industry, which is where I was brought up and came from. Having to have an enormous amount of difficult conversations with a lot of difficult people. And was very well known for overcoming and dealing with these situations very well. And people started to ask me what I did right and what I was doing. And so I started to share that.

Janet Taras:
Since then I obviously have done lots of training, but not that particular training. I have done lots in the neuro scientific world. I’ve done a lot of independent trainers, CIPD. I don’t know if you guys have that there. But I also am about to do my master’s in organizational development, sorry, organizational psychology or you call it business psychology in the States. So all of this, it’s all a work in progress, but all of what I teach is very much based on my own experience.

Mike Domitrz:
Okay. Very cool. Because I know here Courageous Conversations is a big brand. In fact it’s trademarked.

Janet Taras:
Really?

Mike Domitrz:
Yeah, because that whole book series.

Janet Taras:
I didn’t know that.

Mike Domitrz:
Yes. Yeah. So I did, I thought you were conducting their trainings because that word is owned by them, that phrase.

Janet Taras:
You know what? It’s funny you mentioned that because when I did a trademark it here in the UK it did say that there was somebody, it had lapsed it. It no longer was relevant. They must have been in the UK once and then no longer. So I saw that Courageous Conversation was there, but it wasn’t owned by anyone.

Mike Domitrz:
Yeah, yeah. I was just intrigued by that. So, that’s interesting.

Janet Taras:
That’s very interesting.

Mike Domitrz:
Yeah.

Janet Taras:
I’ll look that up and maybe perhaps actually look at it.

Mike Domitrz:
Yeah. Very cool. And so we’re all about respect here and you’ve had some experiences yourself that taught you a lot of lessons. One was about when you were pregnant, so can you share that?

Janet Taras:
Okay, so the reason I actually feel so very passionate about what I speak about has to do with the fact that when I was 32 I very surprisingly ended up being pregnant. No, I say surprisingly because I really wasn’t expecting it. I had taken all precautions one must take. But somehow it didn’t work.

Mike Domitrz:
No 100%. In our line of work group. That’s something you always distress, there’s no 100%.

Janet Taras:
there is no 100%.

Mike Domitrz:
That’s right.

Janet Taras:
So when I discovered this, I had also at the very same time just accepted a new role as one of the highest levels within a very big growing company within the industry I worked in and I was very excited. And I signed the contract and I was already to go. And I actually went on a trip, I went on a holiday and it was while I was away that I found out that I was pregnant. I won’t go in the details, but it’s a another time. I’ll tell you all about that. It was quite funny.

Janet Taras:
When I got back to the UK, when I found out I was definitely pregnant, I thought, “Well what do I do? Do I tell this employer that I’m so excited about that I’m pregnant? I don’t need to. I actually, by law don’t have to tell them until I’m six months.” But I said, “I’m going to tell them because ultimately I am-“

Mike Domitrz:
I want to pause there just so our listeners understand. So in Canada you must tell the employer by the six month mark?

Janet Taras:
No, in the UK. I’m in the UK.

Mike Domitrz:
Okay, in the UK. You mentioned Canada earlier too. Okay. So I apologize.

Janet Taras:
No worries. So in the UK you have till six months. You do not have to tell your employer until you’re six months pregnant. But I did not want to do that, seeing as I was so senior I felt I wanted to be very upfront, very honest. And also my intentions were to take no more than a couple of months off and then get back to work. I was so excited about this position.

Janet Taras:
So I went and I told them and and they were very kind. They looked at me in the eye and they said, “Thank you very much for your honesty.” And big handshakes, big congratulations. And then the very next day I got a letter of withdrawal, which was shocking because I had already resigned from my other position. I mean I had signed on the dotted line and I couldn’t understand it. I couldn’t get what it is that was going on. How could this happen in this day and age? It took me a very long time. And the worst part of this entire story was that every person who fired me was actually a woman. And the company I was working for was a beauty company also catering towards women. So you just didn’t expect it.

Janet Taras:
And I was very angry, I was very upset. But I was also pregnant and single and I didn’t have the strength, mike is the truth. I didn’t have the strength to fight. I fought a little, nothing major. I got really tired. I was very scared. I didn’t know what was going to happen. And so, I didn’t do much. And then over the years as time went on, I realized how angry I was and how suppressing all that anger actually didn’t do much for me as a person. It didn’t really help me to develop. In fact, I was quite stagnant. And that’s when I realized I needed to help people to express themselves. And first I had to help myself. I went through loads of therapy and I went through lots of training on myself to realize where I had to let go and where I had to actually build and empower myself to be able to have these type of conversations without fear. And that’s what I’m trying to help other people do.

Mike Domitrz:
Very powerful. That looking back, you said you were surprised because this was an organization catering to women and it was women who fired you. Looking back, does that still surprise you?

Janet Taras:
No, it doesn’t surprise me. It just makes me sad every time. Even just hearing you say it makes me sad again. I’m actually speaking on Fri-… No sorry next Friday at my daughter’s school, she goes to an all girls school and I decided I would tell this story because it’s one of my biggest pet peeves. I know we can’t all like each other where it’s half the population. We can’t say we’re all going to be friends. But you would think that in a world where the business world has, well, we know it’s been dominated by men since the industrial age and why we’re not helping each other to actually gain equality, is beyond me. And it’s got to start earlier and it’s got to start in school time and we’ve got to make changes and those changes have to happen at a young age. And so yeah, it still saddens me, it doesn’t surprise me. And I do want to find the best ways we can to change it.

Mike Domitrz:
Well, it’s an important topic. Absolutely. And it’s one of those difficult conversations, which you focus in on difficult conversations. So what are skills people should have when trying to have a difficult conversation? What are steps they can take?

Janet Taras:
Well, the first thing that they should do, in my opinion, is look at all elements of the conversation. Now again, you’re not going to have time to prepare like this for every difficult conversation. So I’m now talking about the biggies, okay. The biggies, like you want to ask for a promotion or something like you have to tell somebody they’re not doing well in their work.

Janet Taras:
My first step would would be to look at what it is that the person you’re about to speak to is going to be motivated by. So I would say you want to almost diagnose where it is that their mindset is. And this is something that I took from NLP, it’s not mine uniquely. But NLP tells you that you have to visit the mindset people are already in before you actually can bring them out into your mindset. So that’s, I think where you could start is, you can never start a big difficult conversation by just blurting out what it is you want to talk about because their brain isn’t there yet. So the first step I would say is find out where they are in their mind, ask them questions and start the conversation that way.

Janet Taras:
I think the next step is very important too. And very sadly, I mean it’s an obvious one, but we don’t do it and that is by looking at what it is you might be missing within that conversation. So you kind of have to look at the fact that you have biases for instance, the fact that you may have not been clear when you were explaining whatever you were explaining. or possibly what you’re not seeing underneath the surface. is that person going through something not going through something or the angry about something else? Any possibility that you might be missing. That would be my second step.

Janet Taras:
My third step is to always look at the person that you are about to speak to and have an idea of the type of language that they’re responsive to, the tonality. Some people don’t like when you speak quickly. Some people don’t like when you speak too slowly. Some people don’t like when you raise your voice. Some people only listen when you raise your voice. So if you almost look at the person that you’re speaking to, get an idea of how you think they would be most responsive, that will help you as well. And then you have the conversation.

Janet Taras:
So I suppose those three steps, sorry I’m missing one though. The the fourth step before you have the conversation is to actually figure out what it is that’s going to make you have this conversation. Because like I said, I could teach techniques until I’m blue in the face, but you’re not going to actually do it unless you want to do it. And that’s where I bring in the rap. But if not rap, it’s looking at the consequences of, what would happen if you don’t have this conversation and and what will change and what won’t change? Then you have the conversation.

Mike Domitrz:
And you have an experience that you had with a bully in your professional life. And I don’t know if it’s professional or personal, you had shared about that. So did that come in here? Was that a point where you had a conversation with them?

Janet Taras:
Yes, I did. It was a personal and professional. I think, I always overcome these types of conversations. The one that I think I referred to earlier was at work and it was a very aggressive manager. She was the type of person who, my way or the highway and I just wasn’t working that way. And actually, what was very interesting is through relationship with her, I learned a lot about myself as well. So when I was initially approaching her, I would be as aggressive as she was and I thought that was going to work. Clearly, it was the wrong thing to do because she was threatened every time I was being more aggressive and so threatened that she didn’t even want me there anymore. So her anger was just multiplying every time I tried to seem strong. And as I started to learn more about her, I started to realize that actually, “If she’s threatened by me and she is my manager, what can I do to remove that threat? How is it that I can make her feel more comfortable with me?”

Janet Taras:
And then I started to change my approach. And once I started to remove the threat, she started listening a lot more. And actually over time we became friends. I did not continue working for her forever, but we do have a decent relationship. And I think that she has learned and actually has come to me in the past and said that I had taught her quite a bit about how to manage people. It was her first time managing as a managing director. And I taught her how to sort of adapt her management style to others. But then I had to learn how to adapt my style to the people who are managing me. So I don’t think it’s a one way street, that’s for sure.

Janet Taras:
And I think that you’re never going to be able to change somebody else’s behavior. Hopefully you do, but you’ll never completely do that. But you do have control over your behavior and until you’ve exhausted all possibilities of how to fix the situation, by changing your approach. You don’t have to change yourself, you change your approach. You change the words, you change the scenario, the tonality. And if they’re still not listening, then obviously you have to call it at that point. But until then, I really think we give up too easily. And that route at actually is in a personal way as well. I think we don’t often try everything we can to save a relationship.

Mike Domitrz:
You have personally had experiences where you didn’t have that conversation and it led to lost friendships. Is that part of why you do what you do also?

Janet Taras:
Yeah, that was a huge event in my life. I had just moved to the UK. I had very few friends when I moved here and I befriended this woman who actually ended up having a daughter the same age as my daughter. And we all got along so well. And over time we were almost like family. Really, she was the closest thing I had to family. Until one day when she just simply stopped replying to my emails and I couldn’t figure out why. And I did email her. That’s what we do, isn’t it, when we’re uncomfortable? We don’t pick up the phone. We email and say, “So what’s happening? What’s up?” And without any surprise. She didn’t email me back.

Janet Taras:
And so months went by, literally months went by. Until finally about six months later she did call and told me that she felt that we were visiting too often. I didn’t mention that she didn’t live within London itself. We had to actually take the train to see her, very often we would sleep over. And that felt a little bit too invasive for her, which is understandable. I totally understood.

Janet Taras:
On the other hand, six months later, I was already so angry with the woman that when she called me, I started yelling and screaming, which led her to start yelling and screaming and then stuff was said and we lost the friendship for a really long time, six years. It was six years ago and six years later, as I was speaking about this particular story at an event that I was at in may, I thought, “You know what? I’m going to give her a call. I wonder if she has learnt as much as I have over the last six years and if she would want to actually repair this relationship? Is it possible we can have a new ending?”

Janet Taras:
And so I called her and thank God she was very, very responsive. She was very excited to hear from me and she wanted to meet up with me and my daughter and so we did and we now are back to being friends.

Mike Domitrz:
Oh, that’s wonderful.

Janet Taras:
And that took six years. Yeah, it was a really nice ending of a story. It took six years and a lot of soul searching. I used to use the story as a precautionary tale saying, “If you don’t speak up early, you’ll lose what could be a very valuable relationship.” I now tell it as a happy ending story. It’s a story where even after six years it could be repaired. It’s going to take time to be the same friendship as it was, but the first step has been taken.

Mike Domitrz:
Well that’s very cool. Thank you for sharing that. I want to make sure that everybody can find you so they’re able to learn from you. And the website you have is speakingrights.com.

Janet Taras:
That’s correct.

Mike Domitrz:
Speakingrights.com and we’re going to have all of your links and everything on the show notes. So thank you Janet, so much for sharing with us today.

Janet Taras:
It’s my absolute pleasure, Mike. It was a pleasure. I didn’t get to speak to you much, but I do hope I helped with some insights for difficult conversations.

Mike Domitrz:
Absolutely. And for our listeners, you know what’s next? That is question of the week. Before I answer this week’s question, of the week, I’d love to ask you a question. Would you please subscribe to this podcast, The Respect Podcast with Mike Domitrz? By subscribing you can make a huge impact. Now you might be wondering, “Mike, how does my subscribing to your podcast make a huge impact?” Well, here’s how. For every person that subscribes, it raises the rankings of the show in the search engines. So for people who care about respect like yourself, when they’re doing a search for podcasts, they’re more likely to find show. Thus providing an awesome opportunity for us to spread more respect around this world, and all you do is hit subscribe under your podcast.

Mike Domitrz:
Plus, the second benefit is by subscribing, you automatically get every episode right into your phone or whatever device you’re listening to the podcast on. It happens automatically, so subscribing also makes your life easier. Now let’s get into this week’s question of the week. Oh, and by the way, you can always ask your questions of the week by joining us on Facebook and our discussion group. It’s called The Respect Podcast Discussion Group. Go there on Facebook and ask whatever questions you would like me to answer and or address in this segment of the show. And then listen to each episode to find out when your question is included.

Mike Domitrz:
This week’s question is, “Mike, for a person who has never been sexually intimate with someone, how do you approach your first kiss the first time you have sex, the first time you engage in a sexual act?”

Mike Domitrz:
This is a great question. And the good news is that the answer is consistent no matter what choice you’re making for the first time. Share your thoughts with your partner, right? And let people know that. Set a foundation. So if you’ve never kissed someone, there’s nothing wrong, in fact, it can be very empowering to tell a partner, “I haven’t kissed someone and when I do, I want to know that it’s the right person in the right moment. And I want to make sure they give me a choice. And likewise, if I make the choice that I want to kiss someone, I’m going to give them a choice. I’m going to ask them. Would you ask me before you would ever kiss me to honor myself and my boundaries and my wants? Would you be cool with that?” Right? And you make it sound fun.

Mike Domitrz:
Now, once you’re in a relationship with someone you can have the same conversation about any sexual act or any level of sexual intimacy, “Hey, before I make that choice, I want to know it’s the right situation, the right time, the right partner. Would you always give me a choice and respect my answer? And of course I’ll do the same for you.” So you use your words and you use your spoken words so that you two are able to connect and listen to each other, see how each other responds in those moments and it’s everybody honoring the other person’s boundaries and their own boundaries throughout that process.

Mike Domitrz:
Do you know what I would love? I would love to hear your answer to this week’s question of the week. So would you please answer what your answer would have been if you were asked that question today on the show? All you do is go to our Facebook page, we have a special group where we have these discussions called The Respect Podcast Discussion group, so The Respect Podcast Discussion Group. And share with us what would your answer have been to this week’s question of the week. And take a moment, post us a new question for future episodes. What question would you like to hear me answer on an upcoming episode? That’s all done at on Facebook in our special group, which is The Respect Podcast Discussion Group. Can’t wait to see you there.

Mike Domitrz:
Thank you, for joining us in this episode of The Respect Podcast, exploring work, love and life. And this episode, like every episode is brought to by our organization, The Center For Respect, which you can find it centerforrespect.com. And of course you can find me your host, mikedomitrz@mikespeaks.com. Thank you. So much for joining us.