Jim Schleckser shares how the “Kink in a Hose” approach is the key to great CEOs being successful and HOW successful CEOs tend to live very balanced lives. Mike Domitrz asks Jim how boundaries and respect is key to living a full life while being a strong leader in an organization. And discover how to gain feedback from others without letting it bother you.
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Jim is the CEO of the Inc. CEO Project and helps leaders grow companies. He specializes in the issues that fast growth firms experience in their business models, talent, processes and systems as they reach higher levels of performance. Jim and his team work with over 100 CEOs of high growth companies to identify and obliterate the things that stand between them and continued organizational success. These firms represent nearly $20 billion in revenue and 100,000 employees.
With 30 years of leadership in business, he brings experience in leading global organizations in both public and private environments across many functional areas to the table. His most recent firm had a valuation of $1.6 billion.
He has been quoted in the New York Times, Time, Huffington Post and National Public Radio. His ideas have been translated into 9 languages and he has done business in over 27 countries.
Jim Schleckser is the author of the best selling published book, “Great CEOs are Lazy”, detailing the behaviors that make the difference in CEO performance. You can get more information at www.GreatCEOsAreLazy.com
His insight is sought by dozens of CEOs of growth companies around the country. If you want straight, strategic advice on your business problem – you have found your guy.
He has a degree in Chemical Engineering from the University of Delaware and an MBA in Marketing and Finance from the University of Connecticut.
He serves on the board of Defenders, Daniel Defense, AltoVista and Youth with a Mission – San Pedro, DR, a missionary organization.
He is a Certified Sommelier, avid soccer player, prolific reader and recently climbed Kilimanjaro. He resides in Potomac, Maryland.
Links to Jim:
- https://www.inc.com/jim-schleckser/seven-secrets-of-successful-people-to-living-a-balanced-life.html
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CInHrUs5eb8
- www.IncCEOProject.com — CEO Peer Groups
- www.ProfessionalDrinking.com — Advice to professionals on wine and spirits
- Twitter: IncCEOProject
Books Jim Recommends:
- Dale Carnegie – “How to Stop Worrying and Start Living”
YOUR HOST: Mike Domitrz is the founder of The Center for Respect where he helps educational institutions, the US Military and businesses of all sizes create a culture of respect throughout their organizations. From addressing consent to helping corporations build a workplace free from fear (reducing sexual harassment and helping employees thrive by treating them with respect every day), Domitrz engages audiences by sharing skill sets they can implement into their lives immediately. As an author, trainer, keynote speaker and coach, Mike Domitrz loves working with leaders at all levels. Learn more at http://www.CenterForRespect.com
READ THE FULL TRANSCRIPTION of the EPISODE HERE:
Mike Domitrz:
Welcome to The RESPECT Podcast. I’m your host, Mike Domirtz from mikespeaks.com where we help organizations of all sizes, educational institutions, and the US military create a culture of respect. Respect is exactly what we discuss on this show, so let’s get started. Today we have Jim Schleckser who is a CEO advisor of high performing leaders. His various members represent nearly 20 billion in revenue and 100,000 employees. Jim, thank you so much for joining us.
Jim Schleckser:
I’m glad to be here Mike. Thank you.
Mike Domitrz:
Absolutely. Let’s dive right in. Could you give our listeners a little background on you?
Jim Schleckser:
Yeah, I ran companies for people for many years, both public and private, and what really drew me was helping other people on their journey, and so that’s what I do now. I’ve been doing it for about 15 years, and I advise CEOs of fast growth companies. We’ve got a number of people that use the techniques I developed, and really help them with the things that get in the way, the kink in the hose if you will, as they go on their journey to scale their company, and impact more people.
Mike Domitrz:
Awesome, and your book that got a lot of attention is Great Ceos Are Lazy. So can you explain what that statement means?
Jim Schleckser:
Well, some people hear the title and they go, “I knew it all along that those guys were lazy, and they weren’t doing much in that office when they closed the door.” But what the book is about is what we found in talking to well over a thousand CEOs is that the really good ones have massive control over their schedule, live a balanced life, and they get great results. So how they do that is they focus on what we call the kink in the hose. So you can imagine if you’re untangling a hose, the water isn’t coming out the end of the hose, you’ve got to go find the kink and open it up, that’s the only thing that works. I could do stuff on any other part of that hose, and I wouldn’t create water flow at the end of the hose. Well a business more complex than a hose, but it’s exactly the same idea.
Jim Schleckser:
Somewhere in your business, somewhere in your life there’s a kink in the hose, and you need to find that kink and open it up, and that’s how you get the better results. The really good ones do this sort of intuitively. They’re constantly finding the kink in the hose and then opening up the kink in the hose, and that’s how they get these great results. Yet they look like they’re lazy.
Mike Domitrz:
So why does it look like they’re lazy?
Jim Schleckser:
Well because they’re not working 80 hours a week. When I talk to a CEO, I can tell in a couple of minutes whether I got a good CEO or a bad CEO in front of me. Really the fundamental question is, “How many hours a week do you work?” If they work, “I’m working 80 hours a week and 90, and my kids hate me, and the dog bites me when I come in. I don’t know my kids’ names,” well that’s probably a bad CEO. Others will go, “I work 40 50 hours a week. I work out. I’m done, I go home and see my family.” They’re living a very different kind of lifestyle. So it looks like they’re lazy, but the reality is they worked just probably more hard on the things that matter, maybe two or three times as hard on the things that really matter, and they get rid of all those things that don’t matter.
Mike Domitrz:
Our show is all about respect. So how does respect play into this, because it sounds like a lot of boundaries are being honored in that situation.
Jim Schleckser:
They are. First, they have respect for themselves because it’s very easy when you’re in a leadership role to sort of sacrifice yourself on the altar of the company. That’s not healthy, that’s not respectful to yourself. It really ultimately doesn’t yield the best result for the company. So the first one is, “Respect the fact that I’m going to work on what matters, and I’m not going to just sacrifice my wife, and my family, and my health to do 80 hours or 90 hours a week for the benefit of the company. There’s a balance that has to be established between my life and the needs of the company.” This is one of the ways they do them is by just working on what matters. That means when they say, “I’m not doing that anymore,” some element that’s no longer important, there’s a boundary being established that that’s, “I’m not going to that meeting anymore. I’m not attending that update anymore.” That’s a boundary that allows them to live this more balanced and impactful life.
Mike Domitrz:
So how do they get their leadership boards, their board of directors, others to buy into that philosophy, or are they only going and working in places that already believe that?
Jim Schleckser:
Well, results speak. I used to have a lot of salespeople working for me, and I go, “I really don’t care how many hours you work, as long as you get the results that we’re after. Only if you’re not getting the results that we’re after I’ll plunge in on how you’re doing your job.” I think boards of directors look at it the same way. They want a healthy, focused, impactful leader running their business, and if that means that’s 40 hours a week or 50 and not 80, really, you shouldn’t care about it. Now, there’s no doubt there’s some that kind of old school, “I count your hours and somehow that’s correlated to something, good intentions or something like that,” but I think more modern thinkers go, “Look, I don’t care how you do the job as long as the job gets accomplished well.” You certainly can if you’re a lazy CEO.
Mike Domitrz:
Sure that makes sense. So you have an article that we’re going to include in the show notes called Seven Secrets of Highly Successful People to Living a Balanced Life. So what are some of the secrets?
Jim Schleckser:
Well, the first secret, and people probably know this intrinsically that is that you’re out of balance. So I’ll give you an example of that CEO I’m talking to, and they’re working 80 hours a week, and they’re on their second or third spouse, and their dog hates them and so forth, they don’t even realize that they’re out of balance, so that’s the first one is just realizing they’re out of balance. What the article talks about is thinking about seven elements of living a balanced life and they are health, family, social, financial, business, civic and spiritual. What I encourage people in the article is sort of on a think about a radar chart with zero at the center and 10 at the outside. Just rank yourself on a zero to 10 scale.
Jim Schleckser:
How’s your health? Is it a five, is it a two, is it a 10? How’s your family relations, zero, five, 10, whatever, and so forth around it. You can imagine that a well balanced life is kind of all sitting at the eight or maybe optimally 10 nice and round, nice and balanced. You’re kind of caring for all of the things that give you joy in life. So that’s the first one is just do a diagnostic on where A, “I’m out of balance,” and then B, let’s plunge to the next level on those seven axes, “Where am I out of balance?” That begins to drive into, “Okay what am I going to do about it,” which is the third step.
Mike Domitrz:
Well I think you’re bringing up a good point because usually when people hear balanced I think equal time, but that’s not what you’re referring to. You’re referring to a one to 10 scale fulfillment because you’re not going to spend 10 hours necessarily on one area if you’re doing 10 hours at work.
Jim Schleckser:
Correct. I’ll give you an example there. I play a lot of soccer, and I own a couple of CrossFit gyms, and there was a period of my life where I was playing, I don’t know, 12 hours a week of soccer, and I was working out at the gym 20 hours a week, 30 hours on fitness a week. It was insane. I’m not going to be a bodybuilder or some professional model. I was just doing it for fun. But as I looked at it, I said, “That’s completely out of balance for my objectives around health,” so I’ve changed that to a more reasonable number of hours. But I get joy out of right where I am, and I don’t need more to have more joy. Even if I work 50 hours at work and 10 hours at health, I’m still happy.
Mike Domitrz:
So what’s the key to staying in that balance because a lot of times we get there, right, but then something comes up, or we get something new priority over here, and we’re back to where we were before, and then we balance ourselves out, and then we get out again. We get out of whack and then we’re back to where we were before. So how do you keep it consistently in there?
Jim Schleckser:
Yeah, I think the difference is habitual versus episodic. So if it’s habitual, meaning I work on my health, I lose the weight, I get looking good in my underwear, I’m feeling great about things, and then I start eating chips, and Oreos, and not working out, and I’ve done that 10 times, right, that’s habitual as opposed to in my business, I’ve got this amazing opportunity for an acquisition to really double the size of my business, and I’m going to plunge in and work 60 70 hours a week for a few months or maybe half a year. I know I’m going to sacrifice some other things while I do that, but it’s a conscious choice to go out of balance for a period of time to achieve an objective, and then my intention would be to come back into balance.
Jim Schleckser:
So I’m okay with, “I’m going to plunge in on a particular topic, I’m going to go deep for a while. I may get a little out of balance while I do it,” knowing I intend to come back. But when it’s sort of, it’s just a habit of losing touch with friends, or losing touch with family, or overspending and getting out of financial balance, and I’ve done it five times, and I’ve recovered, and then I go and do it again, that’s kind of the negative side of going out of balance. So there’s a positive way to go out of balance, and a negative way. I think we just have to avoid the negative way and be thoughtful when we do choose to go out of balance.
Mike Domitrz:
So is there a way to do that? How do you avoid the negative way?
Jim Schleckser:
That’s a multi billion dollar question. That’s Weight Watchers, and Atkins, and every gym on the planet, and every financial planner, and it’s hard to not run back in our ruts. I guess for me, when I think about habitual behaviors, I think about a mindset turns into a behavior, and then I implement that behavior often enough, it becomes a habit. So for example, skipping dessert, right? I have the intention to lose weight, and I’ve identified that I eat dessert at every meal, including breakfast, and I’m going to stop doing that.
Jim Schleckser:
So I begin habit of skipping dessert even if it’s once a week or twice a week at breakfast, then all right, I’m beginning to build a habit by doing that repetitively, and then I can expand the habit to skip dessert at lunch, let’s say, and then finally dinner, and now I begin to achieve my weight goal. So I’m about mental state, begin to do a habit is sort of fake until you make it. Then if you do the behavior enough times, and they talk in about 30 to 60 times is enough repetitive behaviors to create a habit. So those are the three steps for me to avoid the habit of going down a negative path that I don’t want to go down.
Mike Domitrz:
You have a reputation for not letting things bother you. How do you do that? Especially for those who are listening, I can be this at times, you’re a bit of a people pleaser. It doesn’t mean you do everything people want, but just that it impacts you more. So how do people avoid that?
Jim Schleckser:
Yeah, it’s a hard thing, particularly when you’re a people pleaser. I think that’s a difficult profile, but I’m a big believer in sort of the Dale Carnegie How to Stop Worrying and Start Living book, and it’s an older book, but he said, “Look, you’ve got to compartmentalize issues in your head. So when there’s an issue, it’s sort of don’t let it affect the other parts of your life. It is what it is.” Then he said, “Think about the worst that can happen. Can you accept the worst that can happen?” “Somebody will be mad at me for a few days if I don’t do what they want.” Let’s use that example. “I won’t like it, but I can live with it.” “Oh great, so you won’t die if the worst outcome happens, that’s great. What’s the outcome you’d like to have happen?” “Well, I’d like them not to be mad at me.”
Jim Schleckser:
“Have you done everything that makes sense for you to do to try to get the best outcome you can?” “Well, yeah I have. I’ve done everything I’m able and willing to do.” “Then you got to let it go.” He talks about give it up to God and just let it go. But just saying, “I’m not going to allow that to bother me because I can accept the worst case of it happens. I’ve done everything I know how to do within my set, and I’m just going to accept the outcome at this point.” That’s what works for me. The other question is, “Does worrying really help? Is it going to change the outcome?” The answer is no, it’s not. I’ll give you an example. I had a guy who worked for me, John. John was a pessimist, and when I would sort of confronted him as a leader in my organization, right? I kind of struggled with pessimists being leaders because I think people find it hard to follow them.
Jim Schleckser:
I said, “John, you just got to have a little different attitude here. That pessimism is hard for people.” He goes, “I’m not a pessimist, I’m a realist.” I said, “Well, that’s what all pessimists say, but fair enough. You’re a realist. You need to be more positive. So here’s the thing, John, you and I had the same situation, and I’m optimistic, and you’re a pessimist. The outcome will be identical, but guess who’s going to have more fun on the way there? Me, not you. So why not take the fun ride instead of the not fun ride?” He struggled with it, and I get that people do.
Mike Domitrz:
Yeah. Is that a profile of a person? I’m wired to hear feedback differently than other people are wired to hear feedback. Can somebody who’s a pessimists just go, “All right, I’ll be optimistic.”
Jim Schleckser:
I go back to my how do you create a habit. First is I want to be more optimistic, so what’s the smallest incremental change I can make in that direction so it’s directionally correct, and I will repeat that for 60 days in a row. Now I’ve begun to build the habit. All right, let me try something a little bit larger. I’ll give you an example. I had a boss that was trying to be … He was an introvert, and he was trying to be more extroverted. So he would, when he was in an elevator or something, he would say hi to people, random people. He had no idea who they were, and just talk to them. Now the beauty of that move was he only had to talk to them for 30 seconds while he was in the elevator. But over time, he built a capability to talk to people longer and longer by establishing the habit by starting in the elevator. So John, take a small thing and grow it, right?
Mike Domitrz:
So let’s take this a little different route because what you’re describing is worrying about an outcome. What about when somebody is impacted by someone else’s words? So in other words, when somebody says something to you not to take that and let that bother you because what you said earlier about not letting things bother you, and you did a great job explaining the not to worry, it’s the same result either way, but what about when the result’s done, and somebody gets constructive or negative feedback, and how do they not let that bother them?
Jim Schleckser:
Yeah, and it happens all the time. People with positive intentions, give you feedback, and it’s received negatively. Occasionally somebody’s truly trying to hurt you, and that’s a separate conversation. But let’s say they are genuinely trying to give you feedback, and you just take it negatively. For me, and that happens to me too by the way, I think that happens to all of us, I think you have to go to the mental place and say, “I have a choice about how I’m going to interpret this feedback, and I choose to interpret it positively.” Now that’s not easy because our little gremlins in our brain want us to interpret it negatively. We go, “No, no, she hates me, and she thinks I’m a bad person,” and dah, dah, dah. That’s an internal talk that you need to stop, so the decision to choose to be happy about the feedback and accept it.
Jim Schleckser:
So for me, I have a mantra that I use around feedback. Before they even start, they go, Mike says, “Mike, genuinely, would you mind if I give you some feedback?” I go, my mantra is “Feedback is a gift. I’d be happy to receive it.” So for me, when I say feedback is a gift, I put myself in a mental state to receive it positively, even if I don’t agree with it, because they made the effort to give me the feedback. The other thing that helps me with feedback is what’s the opposite of love? Some people say hate, but actually it’s not. The opposite of love is ambivalence. I just don’t care about you anymore, that’s the opposite of love. So when somebody is giving me feedback, they’re loving me. Now it takes real effort. It’s hard to get people feedback.
Jim Schleckser:
You might offend them, you had to think about it. There’s real effort involved in feedback, and so it truly is a gift coming from a place of love. So if you can get your head in that direction, it’s hard to take it negatively. So that works for me. I don’t know if it works for everybody.
Mike Domitrz:
No, that makes sense, it’s great feedback, so no pun intended. I don’t know how to take that.
Jim Schleckser:
[crosstalk 00:16:29], and always say thank you after they give you feedback, that is important.
Mike Domitrz:
Absolutely, I’m a big believer in that. That is so important. So the person who gets out of balance, how do they make the time to get back in balance? That seems to be people’s struggle, right? We especially when they’re slipping out of balance, it’s usually there’s something chaos taking place in some place that they don’t feel like they have the time for.
Jim Schleckser:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). For me, this goes down to triage. I mean I sit back and think about my life, and if it’s not going the way I want it to, and, “All right, we’re going to need to make room for more of the good stuff in life and less of the bad stuff that’s going on in my life right now,” whatever category that happens to be, civic, family, business, whatever. So my question is, “What’s going overboard? Something has to go overboard.” That’s the only way to make time. So I’ll usually make a list of all the junk that’s going on in my life, try to rank it in some order, generally with what I like the best, what’s giving me joy in life, what I really enjoy, and I’m impactful, and I’m good at, and I make money if it’s a money thing.
Jim Schleckser:
Then at the bottom, there are these persnickety little things that I just don’t like, and they don’t give me joy, and usually, there’s a sense oughtedness around that, like I ought to do this. It’s like a guilt thing that as I come from my heritage, having guilt, many of us do. I go, “All right, I’m going to cross it off the list, and I’m not going to do it, and I’m not going to be guilty about it.” If you can pull that trick off enough times, you create space for good things to come into your life. I really do believe in that sort of law of attraction. So over time, you’ll come back into balance.
Jim Schleckser:
If you’re intentional about it, that I’m now getting rid of five negative things, gremlins that cause me pain and suffering, and I’m going to push that time in a direction that I want to, friends, family, fitness, whatever turns you on, spiritual, you can consciously move in that direction. Something’s going overboard. It’s the only way to get there in my book.
Mike Domitrz:
Is there a tool someone can use to assess their balance or lack of balance?
Jim Schleckser:
If you look at the article that I think you’re going to link to, it’ll actually [crosstalk 00:18:40]-
Mike Domitrz:
Yep, we have that article, absolutely.
Jim Schleckser:
… it’ll talk in exactly how to sort of build that radar chart and assess how balanced you are. I would say, if you’ve got some things that are very near the center of that radar chart, meaning they’re highly out of balance, that’d be the first place to focus some of your attention.
Mike Domitrz:
You do this for CEOs. How does it apply for others?
Jim Schleckser:
Well, I think for CEOs, the balance thing is difficult, because they do have a very stressful job, a very demanding job. You talked earlier about the clients that I work with have almost $20 billion of revenue they’re responsible for, and 100,000 people, and good leaders take that really seriously because it’s not just who works for me, it’s their family, it’s their home, their livelihood, their ability to put their children through college. I mean, the decisions we make as CEOs are really, really impactful, so you could get stressed out, and out of balance really quickly.
Jim Schleckser:
Having said that, we’ve all got our stresses, and I think exactly the same model of thinking about, “Am I out of balance,” and then using a diagnostic tool to figure out where I’m out of balance, “What am I going to throw overboard to make room for more of the good stuff,” exactly that same trajectory could be used for anybody. Certainly is important for CEOs because of the stress, intrinsic stress level of the job, but I don’t care who you are, we’ve all got some level of stress in our lives, and it would be appropriate for everybody I think.
Mike Domitrz:
No, that makes total sense. You have a couple of books you really love and that you recommend. One was My Father, is that correct?
Jim Schleckser:
Well, they asked for where I got inspiration from.
Mike Domitrz:
Ah okay. I’m like, I am not finding a book just titled because when somebody shares the books with me before the show, I look them up, and I’m like, “All right, I’m going to ask, but did he mean the book or the person?” So, all right, [crosstalk 00:20:27] so that’s your father.
Jim Schleckser:
My father.
Mike Domitrz:
… gotcha.
Jim Schleckser:
He passed away unfortunately, but he was a wonderful influence on me yes.
Mike Domitrz:
Oh, that’s powerful. I think you’ve already mentioned Dale Carnegie’s How To Stop Worrying and Start Living.
Jim Schleckser:
That’s a big one. Yeah.
Mike Domitrz:
Yeah. Awesome. Was there a story you had with your dad that really helped you teach these lessons?
Jim Schleckser:
He didn’t talk about this particular topic, he just lived it, and it really me when he passed how many people came up to me. It was dozens, and dozens, and dozens of people that came up to me and talk. I had no knowledge of these people, how much he helped them, how much he changed their lives, what kindnesses he had offered to them, how he had made this extra effort to just impact people in his life and never talked about it. I didn’t know 90% of these people. It was just really makes you think about what is going to happen at your funeral, and what are people going to say, and are you going to made a dent in the universe in a positive way? I don’t need a statue. I don’t need a building. I want to make the world a better place. He certainly did that. I think when we’re thinking about staying in balance and having a lot of impact, that’s sort of the direction I go into is, “Will you be proud at the end of your life?”
Mike Domitrz:
I love that. What a wonderful way to end our discussion. I want to make sure everybody can find you Jim. So all of your links are going to be in the show notes for our listeners, but it is incceoproject.com is one link you have. We also will have the link to your article we talked about, a YouTube video, and then you’re also a sommelier, correct?
Jim Schleckser:
I am a certified sommelier yeah.
Mike Domitrz:
Yes.
Jim Schleckser:
It’s just one of those balance things I enjoy doing.
Mike Domitrz:
Love it, and you have a website called professionaldrinking.com, so-
Jim Schleckser:
I do.
Mike Domitrz:
… that’s another link out there for all of our listeners. Jim, thank you so much for sharing with us.
Jim Schleckser:
Absolutely, Mike, it was a great pleasure. Thanks for the time.
Mike Domitrz:
Our pleasure, and for our listeners, you know what’s next? It is question of the week. Before I answer this week’s question of the week, I’d love to ask you a question. Would you please subscribe to this podcast, The RESPECT Podcast with Mike Domitrz? By subscribing, you can make a huge impact. Now you might be wondering, “Mike, how does my subscribing to your podcast make a huge impact?” Well, here’s how. For every person that subscribes, it raises the rankings of the show in the search engines. So for people who care about respect like yourself, when they’re doing a search for podcast, they’re more likely to find this show, thus providing an awesome opportunity for us to spread more respect around this world. All you do is hit subscribe under your podcast.
Mike Domitrz:
Plus the second benefit is by subscribing, you automatically get every episode right into your phone or whatever device you are listening to the podcast on. It happens automatically. So subscribing also makes your life easier. Now let’s get into this week’s question of the week. Oh, and by the way, you can always ask your questions of the week by joining us on Facebook in our discussion group. It’s called The RESPECT Podcast Discussion Group. Go there on Facebook and ask whatever questions you would like me to answer and or address in this segment of the show, and then listen to each episode to find out when your question is included.
Mike Domitrz:
As you may have noticed in some questions of the weeks that we do is that I highlight famous quotes around respect and whether we like that quote, or dislike that quote, or disagree with it, or agree it. This week, I just love this quote from somebody who had to go through horrendous experiences of people treating this person with disrespect, with a total disregard even for their human existence at times, and that is just unbelievable that people treat another human being this way, but they did. The person whose quote we’re going to be talking about this week is Jackie Robinson. Jackie Robinson’s quote is, “I’m not concerned with your liking or disliking me. All I ask is that you respect me as a human being,” end of quote.
Mike Domitrz:
In our work, that’s what we teach all over the world. It’s not whether you like me or dislike me. It’s not whether that person you’re teamed up with on that project likes you or dislikes you. It’s whether you’re treating each other with respect. You can dislike someone and do amazing work together, amazing work. You can actually have mutually amazing work relationships with people you don’t like when you learn how to treat each other with respect. Do you know what I would love? I would love to hear your answer to this week’s question of the week. So would you please answer what your answer would have been if you were asked that question today on the show? All you do is go to our Facebook page.
Mike Domitrz:
We have a special group where we have these discussions called The RESPECT Podcast Discussion Group, so The RESPECT Podcast Discussion Group and share with us what would your answer have been to this week’s question of the week, and if take a moment, post us a new question for future episodes. What question would you like to hear me answer on an upcoming episode? That’s all done on Facebook in our special group, which is The RESPECT Podcast Discussion Group. Can’t wait to see you there. Thank you for joining us in this episode of The RESPECT Podcast, exploring work, love and life. This episode, like every episode is brought to you by our organization, The Center for Respect, which you can find at centerforrespect.com. Of course, you can find me your host, Mike Domitrz at mikespeaks.com. Thank you so much for joining us.